Murder in UFOLAND : The testimony of Moran Lerner. Intelligence operative or lying larper?

Thursday, September 4, 2025

Show Notes

Murder in UFOLAND : The testimony of Moran Lerner. Intelligence operative or lying larper?


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Show Transcript

Hey there, Hey, how are you good? Good weekend? Oh kind of rained out? It's okay.

So what is the game plan here? Look? What are we gonna How are we going to do this? Do you do you have any idea?

Like where are you going to start and where we're going to go because we've already been through this like twice, so we have. I just wanted to understand. I mean, I know you were asking. You spoke with Jonathan.

He said that for whatever reason, I think, something to do with your kids. You cut it short, he said, he I mean he told he told his story. There wasn't much else to talk about, you know. Like I wasn't there.

I have no idea. I think forty five minutes I think, yeah, five minutes of him telling the story. The one thing I wanted to clear. I think you asked him and he was a bit.

Confused. You asked him, why would Israeli intelligence be involved? Israeli intelligence had nothing to do with this. I'm former Israeli intelligence.

I'm not currently and I wasn't in the capacity that I was in. I can't you saw me. It's some kind of quasi intelligence organization. Well it's Israel, right, No, it's an organization.

The people involved are from several countries. I was brought in because of certain training and skills that I had in specific fields. So I'm actually I'm going to stay on here, but I'm going to email you something. So that you can see for yourself.

Muh truth seeker. Shire, I uh right, I sent you an email with. A research paper. Mm hmm.

Should be with your shoulders, Yeah, okay, and you could see that it's a paper researching post traumatic effects of terrorism and children. Okay. And if you scroll down to the first main page of the pdf, you will see the co authors. Yeah, I see listed from Yeah, Rishan, let's see on mental health center in Israel.

That's right. Background in psychology. I've been a background in psychology, but one of my main focus thereas has always been how ideologies, terrorists, groups, cults influence and affect people, which is why I was brought in. To be able to identify people, or actually the scouts that were on would identify them.

I was able to get embedded to identify what they were doing, identify the behavior, to be able to identify vulnerable victims and get them out. Okay, So it's justin Jonathan was one of those people that you identified. Yes, so Jonathan initially was actually part of the frat boy group. He was actually one of them.

But they all play each other and the reason why they do it is because they they know that certain of the so called UFO celebrities revolve around others, so they identify almost people that they want. They try to win favor with these celebrities so that they can get close to them and therefore in some sort of inner circle. Everyone, whether you are a skeptical believer, wants to believe.

They want to learn as much as they can, and the only way to learn as much as you can is to get close to the people you believe on the inside, whether it's government, Chris Bletso or whoever it may be other celebrity, and a lot of these guys work together and they almost recruit people to take to whether it's Alexander Ross, Coulthard letso in order to win favor, getting to their favor given to their circle, they then get introduced to other people and they believe that they're one of the big people themselves. They can then start telling everyone else that they're friends with, or work with, or interrupt with on Twitter that they're on the inside, and that's exactly what they do. I wasn't monitoring everyone. I was monitoring specific people the first person.

So the way that I got involved and I identified who I needed to go to, the first person I actually ever interrupted with and got close to was Jacksafati because from all the research we were told always go to the old school, Jacksafati was obviously, as you know, close to the Ron Pandolfi's how putoffs and all the main names from there. He got me onto his email list, which I've shown you, and that's separate. If you ever want to do a show on that, you wanted me to share some of those emails and you would be blown away by some of the things they discuss. Yeah, and this is all UFO insiders and UFO celebrities like Alexandro Christopher Mellen.

Yeah, but it's more than just UFO celebrities UFO insiders. There are other people. They are really top scientists in various fields. They are government military intel people, even some of them with their CIA and and DoD email addresses.

There are a lot of people. There who. From what I can show you, and this is separate to what we're talking here, Well, I can show you probably the people above Elizondo and co who are actually calling the shots. And it's people that you'd never hear mentioned on Twitter, you never here mentioned their documentaries in podcasts.

Ever, they are the people behind the scenes, and they're all on that email list. Yeah. I have heard about that email list at various times for years, including I guess the most notable person that mentions that email list. I've heard him mention it multiple times is Grant Cameron because he keeps tabs on people like Sarfati and all these other people that you have mentioned.

Yeah, So by getting in with Jacksafati, I was able to then learn who is who. I started that around middle of March twenty twenty. I quickly started learning some of the people below them, well below them, the other names like the Deeper Sides, et cetera. We had people watching Deeper sad because obviously we all know that half of everything he says is bullshit.

Deeper Side was interrupting with someone who he was very very very close to, and that was John Davies, which is how I got to John Davies. Okay, with people then watching his interactions because I'm based in the UK. I was tasked with watching the people in the UK and Ireland. There also seemed to be an inordinate amount of people involved in I mean what I would call the United States dates UFO seen that are all from England.

We have. I could think of multiple examples as Project Unity, Jonathan Davis, many many people from England are deep. Yeah, Paul Jones, Adam Goldsack, all of them. Adam Goldsack is probably the the head of that entire group.

And from the way they work, what I've learned extensively is and I've actually mentioned it plenty times myself with Micah, there are so many people. These people are actually recruited and have been recruited well before TTSA actually came out. They were all put in place to be ready for when it does, and they immediately from day one were active. They then recruit more people into the group.

They're highly aggressive, highly abusive. They work in teams. If you actually read a lot of their emails, especially you can just look at all the emails mocking me in the last four weeks. It's always the same people liking it, resharing it and commenting.

There's never anyone new but it extends to the United States, where you've got your Christopher Wolford's, your UAP mikes, you all of them, they're all involved in the same group. Then you've got your passive guys who have a different task of simply disseminating the propaganda, and that would be your favorite guy, Ryan Robins. UFO Jesus, You've got the likes. And UFO Jesus is You know, people are aware that I have problems with him because we can show chapter and verse that all he does is repeat talking points of UFO celebrities and he does absolutely no fact checking.

He just repeats what they say as factual, even when it's not. And I have a real problem with that. And we can estimate that you know, he's made tens of thousands of dollars with his YouTube channel just repeating UFO celebrity talking points. And he was also instrumental in promoting TTSA and I'm sure helping them to get what I would term as victims of their techno scam.

Oh, I completely agree with you, but that's what he was recruited for. He was recruited. This isn't someone who just waltz into to Twitter and decided, you know what, I'm just going to follow this and be a cheerleader. He was recruited.

Have you read some of his books, what he's seen, the books he's written. No, No, I haven't. They're all on cognitive behavior, how to manipulate people. There's actually one book titled how to Manipulate People, like the CIA or something like that.

He writes books on cognitive behavioral therapy. And if you know anything on cognitive behavior, it is how to use words, language and prompts to get people to. It's kind of like neural linguistic programming. It's very exactly a neuro linguistic programming.

Yeah, and it's interesting that he has that background in how to manipulate people in psychology and he gets you know, as you say, he has been recruited to help them manipulate the minds of the masses. Perhaps correct, But then you get people like Tim McMillan, who founded the Debrief. He's also a specialist in neurolinguistic programming. And then when you start looking at the backgrounds of a number of these people that all have that same skill and they use it because half the Debrief articles are completely bullshit.

But people simply listen, and people listen. It's not just believers that believe it, it's actually skeptics as well, because everyone who's on there just wants to believe. Yeah, I totally agree with you. It seems like, you know, they really want to believe.

This whole disclosure is nigh any day, noil and this UFO Jesus. Since he started his channel, he has taken down many of his early videos, and in one early video he declared that it was the first day of disclosure and that day was the day of the ttsa fake press conference. Yeah, made a. Video saying this is the first day of disclosure, and he says other ridiculous things like luel A Zando's statement at that conference will be taught in history books for the next one thousand years.

That's a quote from him. Yeah, it's troubling. It's very troubling. But once you get something out there and you have people there just to share it and reshare it.

I mean, it's the same thing as this guy, this Merrick renan Kamp who came onto Twitter and his entire purpose was to take down Mickwest. Yeah, I'm here, he's got a Yes, he had some time, which was not a senior role. He was not an advisor to Obama like he claims. Half his photos are staged and not the real deal.

But these are the types of people. You've got this Katie Howland or whatever. Her and Marek actually go way back. They used to work together.

Well that's interesting because now they're sort of deeply embedded and involved here. Correct. They are students of policy analytics. The policy analysts, that's all they are.

They're the people who are studying to be advisers to senior decision makers in Congress, the Senate, or the president. I think that Marek was involved as a junior go for during the Obama election run, but never actually when he was president. But they're all involved, and they have those skills of being able to take any information and push it out as propaganda over and over and over. If you write in the Hill, if you write it in certain papers as an opinion piece, people don't take it as an opinion piece.

They take it as fact. Yeah. So a lot of the people that I you could say, befriended with my previous accounts were all people that ended up being victims to some form from the John Davies and co group, especially Christopher Gray and actually one of them, Pucksley, who I was friendly with, and he's he's a very attention seeking person. He's been slaty Migalore, which I've laughed at quite a bit.

But he used to speak to Christopher Gray on Skype. He even tweeted about it extensively until Christopher Gray threatened him and then sent him the video of the murder. Interesting. Yeah, so, but let's get back to this is Yeah, do you want to permission this?

I came to you. I wanted to I wanted to get this out. Sure, I want I want you to tell the you know a little more detail. So you're claiming that you were sent in by some group to help pull people out of the UFO cult extremist groups.

Talk a little bit about that. Yeah, Look, I'm not going to go into detail. All I will say is that I was brought in to identify the people involved in the in the group to involved in what I understood as the ideology of a cult, people who wanted to almost find vulnerable victims, almost like sacrificial lambs, take them to the people that they wanted to get close to to win favor, build entire narratives. There were a lot of people involved in it.

Jonathan was one of the first that i'd found and you've you've heard his story, you've seen everything that he shared with you. Start to finish, it shows how he was identified, how they manipulated it, how they took him to Bletso or got him to send hair and clothing and other pieces to Bletso. And these are people that are now promoting Christopher Bletzo's book that's coming up in December. Yeah, you've noticed that.

And also I've heard that this Jonathan Davies was the researcher for this New seven Australian reporter Ross Coultart. Yeah, and they're all I'm not sure if it history. It wouldn't surprise me because half of the things that Ross called up up with this complete and utter rubbish. It's old hoaxes.

But Jonathan Davies does promote, and there's a lot of people that promote. All of us. I mean, I just saw your little short video on Third Phase of the Moon. It's almost like Third Phase of the Moon is hiring these people to just push out the same old, tired stories.

But these guys have a sense that they've had experiences that have touched them. Jonathan Davies believes he's a He's got super psychic powers. He's told people that he has met a shape shifting skin walker. It's all the usual stories, and people believe it.

Yeah, they do. People believe it because people want to believe it. Jonathan Davies. I then came clean.

I said to Jonathan, you know who I am. I am coming on Twitter. I got him to believe that everything that I got him to believe. I came on and I was given a script.

The script for certain characters was an amalgamation of things that I'd learned from Jack Sofati, the old man who was contacted by aliens, speaking to aliens, exactly as Jacksafarta believes he was. I knew that Jonathan Davies was was someone who wanted to get very very close. In fact, he used to tell people he was Christopher Bletto's best friend. I don't think they've ever met, but he was his best friend.

Yes, And just so the audience is aware this, Jonathan Davies is the person who arranged for Jonathan, who we've interviewed and will include in this piece. He arranged for him to send some a lock of hair and picture so that Chris Bledsoe could somehow talk to the aliens and heal his daughter of a very serious ill condition. Yeah, and Jonathan Davies told him that Bledsoe has cured people of cancer in the past. Jonathan, Well, Jonathan Davis, And it's also in writing that you've got from from Jonathan.

He's also told him that he's to speak about it to no one because they have done this before. They've done this several times before, and it seems to bring trouble to Christopher Bledson. There's a long history of it, and Jonathan Young was not the last person that they did this to. Davies then befriended very closely Christopher Gray.

Christopher Gray himself was a believer, but he had certain skills it skills he was able to get information on things and people that were at a very very advanced level, almost as if he was trained. That's pretty interesting that he had the mental forwarded to complete those kind of tasks, considering, you know, in other areas, it appears that he was lost in a delusional fantasy here and sort of losing a grip on reality. Right. Yeah, I think that towards the end he was losing a grip on reality.

I think obviously, to be at the level to do what these guys were doing, you can't really be on any semblance of reality anyway. But it started building for him. He started to get very almost religious in his messages towards the end. A lot of these guys do they try separate and try almost not talk about the religious background or religious beliefs, but there's a lot of religious belief in it.

And as you've seen from the email that Christopher Gray sent to people, he believes that he likely had an interaction with bless Her himself, because he made very clear in his statement that the Bletters are not to touch him or his family ever. Again. Yeah, so Bletsoe was somehow involved in causing this person to I would say degenerate in in some way. And we Bledsoe was also the focus of some of his paranoid delusions.

Some might say, right, Yeah, I think so. And I think that he probably saw that as some sort of Satanism because he was there to fight Satan. He made their statements on several occasions, especially in their final email. I'm not so sure that it's Chris Blitzo himself that is actually doing the harm, if that makes sense.

I think that Chris bletso is being used potentially, but then that's just my speculative opinion. But Chris Blitzo was close to a lot of the people at the top. He was close to people in the CIA, He was close to Ttsa, He is close to Jim Semivan who doesn't stop talking about him, is close to the Bob McGuire and all of these guys, and John Davies started getting very close to the Bob mcguires and that entire circle. But I'm aware, I'm aware of Bloodshoe is also close and closely followed by people like Grant Cameron and many other UFO celebrities have at least done an interview with him or talked about his strange experiences.

So I suppose if you wanted to get close to some of these UFO celebrities, a good way to do that would be to cozy up to Bledsoe himself, who knows all of them and interact with them, is friendly with them exactly. Look, everyone wants to try get their answers, and to get the answers they need to get to the people at the top, and they will do whatever it takes. And I think the purpose of why I came to you with this is so that you can understand just how far people will go to get to the top. And that's exactly what a cult is.

So while everyone on Twitter is going about talking, screaming, shouting, talking about how terrible the insults are and the vitriol and the attacks and the abuse and even the docs, and they just have no idea how far things have actually gotten and what people are actually prepared to do to get to the top. Yeah, yeah, that's that's in a nutshell. It wasn't a long stint I was on. I interacted with people.

I try to get away from the threat narratives because that used to frighten a lot of people. And everything that I ever said with those those characters was always to ensure that people weren't led to believe that there's an imminent threat of an invasion or these these killer aliens and these bugs, as Tom DeLong used to call them, coming to infest everyone. And now you've got the story from Skinwalker Ranch almost taking it to the next level of hitchhiking parasites and were wolves and god knows what else. It is dangerous and just that fear can create.

I mean, you've seen the stories in the United States as well. You've got a story recently, I think a year ago a father shot his son with a spear gun because he thought he was a reptilian. And these types of ideologies are very dangerous. And it wasn't just me.

There were many people, and in fact there were there were more than just me manning those accounts that I was on itself. The reason I left at the beginning of October was that I had found a fake account on Twitter that was using my name and my company name and other details about me. Sure, so. Let's talk about these alternate or other Twitter accounts.

And some of your very harsh critics have pointed out that you were accused you of using multiple Twitter accounts, that we're telling different stories and and not you know, I'm aware or have been told. Jonathan confirmed that you were behind the Truth above All account and Truth Truth of Error via. Trut Truth of terri Yes, yeah, Truth bar and Truth of Terrify correct, that were actually the same account. So I at no point did I have more than one account at any given time.

Ever, so I know a lot of people are being accused at the moment of being me and my alternate accounts and sock puppets and whatever sock puppet accounts accounts that you have simultaneously to your main account. I never had multiple accounts. I always had one account at any given time. The stories, the stories with what.

Was the purpose, What was the purpose of having all of these different Twitter accounts. Then at different times. Actually the truth Praer and truth or Ter of truth or Ter evolved out as truth Bearer. I never ever deactivated the truth Pearer account.

I simply changed the name. In terms of the narrative, it is all scripted. It was all scripted. The purpose of coming in with the script and with those stories is because there were a lot of believers.

You've got your. Your Love and Light people, your people who believe in the Galactic Federation that they talked to aliens. You've got all sorts of people in there. It was one of those accounts because it was able to blend in everything that I did.

I didn't give a shit about the people I was interacting with daily. I wasn't there for them. What the scripts were saying, what the stories were. I never cared.

There was a lot of truth because there was things that I was saying that were in terms of scientific research. I used to put papers on I used to talk about different things as well at the time, but most of the things were simply scripted. And if I, for example, was interacting with you and you're asking me questions and I was talking about aliens and UFOs and things that I'd seen, you were never the target audience. Twitter is a public platform, which means anything that I'm putting in tweets would be seen by everyone.

And it was those groups of very very heavy believers that I was there to get inside with. Everyone else was irrelevant. I wasn't there to be a skeptic, okay, But this. Is what I don't understand.

So now you're saying that those accounts were you were posting scripted things. Who was giving you the script the group that you are saying that? Initially, yes, and we were making up the script as we went a law. We would literally meet certain individual certain accounts who were telling us certain stories, and we would build narratives on what we were learning.

People believed in, people were saying, we weren't mimicking them. We weren't taking their stories from them. We were simply pushing things out that there were groups, large groups that believed in it simply to fit in. I think the best way to describe it is almost like an undercover operative in a mafia group.

It has to pretend to be someone speaking like them, doing exactly what they do, living in a Rundown apartment in the same area. None of them would know who he is. They would all think that he's one of them. That's exactly the purpose.

The purpose was simply to find, identify, and get people out away from behold of those groups. That's it, okay, But you know, some people may say that that's a convenient excuse. They could say whatever they want a retcon after having been caught with these odd Twitter accounts. There were a.

Lot of people, There were a lot of people on Twitter who knew exactly who I was, and they knew exactly what I was doing. People could say whatever they want. The thing with Twitter is. It's a paranoid group of people who think they are researchers and investigators and they think that they've worked everything out.

I'm not here to clear my name. If after this people still think that I'm the bad guy. I honestly don't care. I never came to Twitter because I have a love for Twitter.

I have no interest in uphology. Well, from the posts of those accounties seem to have quite a working knowledge of the history of it and mythology and the stories of this. Thing that's called researching on the job. That's easy.

There is so many resources to get information on. There's so many people that you could speak to. I mean, I could show you threads on the JACKSFARTI emails that tell you everything. They literally linked to every main story, all the main players, a lot of the UFO cases.

I don't have a personal interest. This is something I was doing for probably less than eighteen months, and then I left. That's it. My job was done and I left.

I came back as me because that account was still on the fake account. First thing I did was I confronted that account. They deactivated. Still got screenshots of that account when it was active.

It was an account mimicking me. I know exactly where they get the information from. In half the information that people have on all my different accounts and things I did and do, things they claimed that I was talking to aliens, and I used to put this in people's head in this that I know exactly where that comes from. It comes from exactly the same person and the same people.

But there are a lot of people. There are actually a lot of people I interacted with who have been dming me as in my recent account in the Moran Learner account saying we interacted with you when you were Truth of Teravea or truth Bearer, and we never had a bad experience. You actually helped us get through certain things we were going through and that was the purpose of what I was there to do. Yeah, and just to be clear for the audience, I have asked you, you know, for more details of this organization that you claim that you were sent in by, I don't know what, three four or five times now And as the reason I'm not you can imagine where people would find that problematic, like there's some secret, shadowy group that's sending people in to save people from UFO cults.

But yeah, there is secret. I can't tell you. It's not about a secret. It's about there are still people on Twitter doing that.

I'm not delying it. And if people think that they aren't, if people honestly are are naive enough to think that there are no people on Twitter specifically to monitor and to look on both sides of it. It's not just to push a narrative and to push propaganda of the UFI narrative. It's also to counter it.

Well, I wasn't there to counter it. I was there to help the people that were being affected by it. And that's it. And if people believe it, this story isn't about me.

I know people like to make things about individuals. This isn't about me. This is about a group of people that I was watching, and you have all the evidence in front of you to show you what you need. If people want to make this about me, that's up to them.

It really doesn't bother me. I'm not running away. I could have run away after that blog. I'm not running away because I've got nothing to care about.

It doesn't bother me in the slightest. If people don't want to listen, I have no interest in remaining on Twitter. I didn't have any interest in coming on Twitter. I was asked her, I did my job, and I left.

I then had someone pretending to be the real me when they weren't, and I came back on as me. That's it. You could be as tough with me as you want. Now.

I'm trying to drill down on this because I mean, you can see how people critical of you are going to say you got caught with these fake accounts, that we're all telling different stories that aren't compatible, and now you're coming up with a new story to cover the old stories. You know, people could say that, right, and people will say that mm hmm. But that's not what I'm here to show people. I'm here to share with people exactly what has been happening behind the scenes.

I'm not the story. If people want to, I don't care what people think. People will absolutely so. He's just concocted another story to get himself out of it.

But these are the same people the cryout for hard evidence of anything that is said and anything that is claimed. You have that, okay? Well, I could share with you one thing from one of your harsh critics. Let's see here, Let's see if we can.

Yeah, I have here from Bradley Johansson, says. Rand's friend Jonathan confirmed that he was behind the Truth Above it All and Truth of Era via accounts. Troy Littman confirmed to me that he was the truth of AA. Therefore, Maran ran all of those accounts, and the point that he makes is that those accounts made a wide variety of biographical and other claims that are incompatible with each other and with marian biography.

Absolutely. Firstly, I will Troy. Troy Loveman is still an active account. I can't deactivate it because I never started it.

You need all the details in order to deactivate it. Troy Litman came on in middle of October last year purely because there was an account of me set up by whoever it may be, and they came on to watch that account. That's it. They played the game, all of those accounts, everything that, the bios, the stories, none of it was real.

It was never intended to be real. You're asking me, I'm telling you. I'm not trying to give excuses for it. But from April, when I came on as me, I'd already left the organization, I'd left everything, and I came on purely as me.

People want to believe it. They can. People don't want to believe it. They don't need to.

But isn't it true that you came on under this name after the other, after the blog of or shortly before the blog of this brahead Bradley Johansson. I came on in April beginning of April. The blog came out at the end of July. Okay, but I'm sure you can understand where people are having doubts because you had these other accounts.

You were making all these claims, but you're now claiming that those claims are those posts you were making under these alternate let's just call them alternate Twitter accounts were scripted to get close to the UFO crowd, to. Certain people in the UFI crowd. Yes, of course they weren't real. So all the claims, all the claims that you made under these other accounts were fake.

Then not all the claims. But I was never going to say, hey, I'm in England and this is what I do for a living and so, and they were all designed to be false accounts. They were all designed to be active accounts with a script and a narrative in order to get inside the cult. Okay, but and from me, you know, maybe my memory is wrong too, but I seem to recall that when I first talked to you, you claimed those weren't your accounts.

When did I say they weren't by account. I miss maybe I'm miss remembering what you said. Because the Truth Bearer and Truth of Terror Via accounts were mine, Troy, lookman is not mine. I know that is running.

There was. To be clear, there was other accounts. Bradley Johansson claimed that you were also behind that you've got you were behind? Which accounts was I allegitly behind?

I have no idea. I don't have his blog in front of me, but I think his blog few more accounts? Yeah, oh no, No, there was never any other accounts other than Truth of Terra BA and Truthbearer. There were no other accounts.

Okay, well, And to be clear and to be fair, Bradley Johansson's blog did not offer any forensic evidence or proof that you ran these multiple accounts. I found it to be largely sort of his opinion that you were behind. You know, we have the two and you've admitted to those and have an explanation I suppose for why you were reading the accounts and posting things. A lot of people, so I'll give you an example.

There are people who've known, there are people who've always that I was truth Bearer. In fact, John Davies and Jonathan Young and a couple of others. I actually told them I was coming on Twitter in towards the end of July twenty twenty as truth bearer. There was no secret about it with certain people.

Okay, well I understand that, but I'm sure I'm sure you understand I won't be doing my job if I and I ask you about this. I'm sure I want and I'm sure that many of your credits are going to say that this is the Lark three point oh. We had one point oh with this account, two point zero with this other account, and now you're on to the third. You know you're one hundred percent right.

All I've seen in the last six weeks seven weeks is multiple people who have nothing to do with me be accused of being me. It is an easy it is an easy excuse and an easy thing to throw at people every time they are now skeptical, and it's very easy to blame me that now any skeptic that makes any sort of comment is just one of my sock puppet accounts. There are The point is there are people that will always believe what they believe. That's what I was saying here at the beginning.

It doesn't matter if you're a believer or a skeptic. The skeptics are equally as gullible and easy to believe the same things. Bradley wrote the blog. I knew he was writing the blog.

I was told he was writing the blog weeks before I knew the content. I knew what he was going to be writing. I even posted a thread two weeks before the blog stating I've been made aware that I'm going to be docked. Okay.

And also, I mean my add to your credibility, You've made other claims like being former Israeli intelligence and things like that. I mean, can you provide proof for evidence that you were former Israeli intelligence. A lot of the companies that I've worked for are if you look at a group, so a lot of people have been accusing me of being former Massad. I was never Masad.

And people do not understand how Israeli intelligence works. There's a unit in Israel called Unit eighty one. It is what they do is classified. However, the group itself is not classified.

It's well documented. You could read a lot about it. A lot of former Unit eighty one companies or members currently run technology companies. Those technology companies are usually built taking global funded with heavy investment.

A lot of that funding goes back into the unit and they continue doing more research. It's always the case in terms of evidence of what would you like me to do to show you my intelligence papers? These are things you know that you will never be able to say. Sure, well, I'm aware of but I'm sure that people will ask for intelligence and I did do some background.

Do you want to tell us about Novolink? Is that you that I found here as directed? Yes, so we do have some evidence that you have worked in security and intelligence in the form of this company called novo Link. Yeah.

What nob link does. Noblink advisors companies, ministries of defense, some governments on into government and inter agency trade. We do work on defense contracts. We do work on biotech companies.

We help them raise investments, we help them grow and expand we bring them projects within certain military divisions of certain countries. And we're not talking about weapons yet. We're not talking about biological weapons either. We're not talking about chemical weapons.

We're talking about things like coronavirus and other infectious disease diagnostics. We take these two areas of the world that really need them. Africa, Southeast Asia, part of the United States. We work on a lot of renewable energy projects a lot of countries with the renewable energies.

They are actually run by military organizations, because it's military organizations that are for many countries, the emergency services. If you have a flood, if you have any sort of catastrophe, earthquake, it's the military that is sent in to help people. We work with those organizations. That's all it is.

Okay, you were so identifying. You were also identified by the BBBBC in twenty sixteen as the CEO of a tech startup, chirp. Correct and what was Chirp's primary product or service. It was an audio technology that allowed the transfer of data between any device with a speaker and microphone to another using just sound.

No Wi Fi, no Bluetooth, no any other form of connectivity, just sound, both audible and inaudible, which means that I can stand thirty feet away from you with my phone in airplane mode. Phone can be an airplane mode. I can send a sound bite with data and it will appear and decode in your device, and you will get to whatever data I'm transferring to you. We also use this specifically in nuclear sites because a lot of the nuclear facilities nuclear power plants are old and they are not able to use Wi Fi or Bluetooth inside the main turbines, which means that you have people walking around with manual books taking meta readings.

It's labor intensive, it's arduous, and it's very costly. We embedded small devices that allowed basically to make an old nuclear power plant almost like a smart factory. But you can imagine being a nuclear facility, you also need security clearance to get in. Okay, So I guess you know.

We should address this Christopher Gray and what you know about his interaction with some of these folks and what may have driven him to the point of madness and murder. Right. Christopher Gray was an interesting one. He was an avid researcher.

He had multiple accounts. He used to complain a lot about having issues with Twitter and Twitter barring his accounts because he never wanted to give them showe numbers to verify his accounts. So every time they would shut down one account, he'd open up another one and then he'd clean it clear the first one. He was very very active in the community.

He had very wild theories. One of the main focuses that he used to believe in was that he and others were time travelers. He was very focused on elements of the secret Space Horse or secret space program. He was very much a believer in alien bases on the Moon, and he used to engage heavily with the likes of John Davies.

I know John Davies has been accused a few times over the last couple of months. He's denied any interaction on being friends with Christopher Gray. But I think you've got more than enough evidence in front of you to show the contrary. They were actually a lot closer.

In fact, you've also got evidence that where John Davies has been going around Swetter telling people more analyzed, he's been saying he's former Israeli intelligence, and there's that the other actually, you've got evidence that he told someone over a year ago that the reason they backed away from me was because they them else found out that I was former Israeli intelligence. Yeah, that's pretty interesting. And so Jonathan Davies was heavily involved with this Christopher Gray before the murder. And we've also seen some evidence that Jonathan Davies was sort of telling people not to talk about the murder in public because it was bad for disclosure.

Is that correct? Is my understanding of that correct? He wanted to distance himself from Christopher Gray because he knew he was a lot closer to Christopher Gray than he wanted anyone to know. Here's Christopher Gray, here's Jonathan Davies trying to get his way up the ladder.

By that time, he had already gone all out to docks people like Deeper Sad. These are the people that docks people. He's the same person. And again, there were a lot of claims made about me that everyone is still saying is true because Jonathan Davies said so.

Jonathan Davies also said that when he first met me, I asked him to get me close to Christopher Blezzo and to depresad. But when he refused, I just lashed out and I would attack them when they refused my overtures. But it was him that docks Deepersid. In fact, he docks Deeper Sad shortly after I met him.

Yeah, and it was Davies that was responsible for some of the revelations about Perhaps Deep Presad is not all that he constantly claims to be and so far as his business and things like that. Everything it had nothing to do with me. I don't even know the details. What I do know is that I did try get hold of deeper sad because I do have the evidence, which I have shared a you as well.

I was aware he was busy working on docks and deeper side. He even said the same thing to Jonathan Young and pretty much anyone that would listen. And it wasn't just him working in it. You had your your group that he's still with, your Paul Reddington's, your Paul Jones, all the guys in England, in Scotland, in Ireland.

I mean I had recent I should I say, issues conflict short interactions with a guy in Ireland called Robert Sheridan because I had never heard of the guy. Out of the blue, he starts talking to me in direct messages, wanted to get close. Then I don't hear from here for a few hours. Then immediately he comes to me and he says, would you like to go on the Ross Coulthard Show, And I said absolutely not.

Yeah, and we have the screenshot from that interaction. So yeah, you've got you've got accurate. He did. He did ask you to be on a show with Ross, and you declined, and I declined credibility or lack of credibility.

Right correct, And he immediately blocked me. He then went around saying everything under the sun. And now he's coming out after after the block came out, he's come out and said I blocked Moran because Ross Coultheart did full background checks on Moran and he told me that he's not who he says he is. But then in the same breath he says that I'm born in South Africa, which is false.

That is easy to prove. He said that. I think if I recall in some of his tweet, my job is to sell water pumps or water components, not at all. I was the CEO of multiple water companies.

We were developing water treatment solutions, both chemical and actual technologies. In fact, other technologies. Is nanotechnology, quite advanced nanotechnology. These are the things that I do get engaged with.

I do actively get involved in businesses where it is for the benefit of people. We are developing renewable energies. We're developing new renewable energy technologies all the time. Yeah, so I'm sure that.

You know there's a ton of there's a ton of false information. And the problem. Is is because Brad wrote his blog, anybody can say anything they want about me and it's just believed, and personally that's okay, which is why I'm answering you when you're asking me the questions. It doesn't matter what I say to you, it doesn't matter what I answer.

People will come out of this keeping to their belief of who I am and they'll think this is laugh three point zero. And as you. Say, that's okay. I'm not here to convince people.

I'm not trying to redeem my name, so to speakcause I couldn't care less. I could leave Twitter tomorrow and it wouldn't make a difference to me. But what does matter is that what I have brought to you is out there so people know exactly what goes on, and they could stop thinking that this isn't dangerous and people don't get hurt, and that it's just a bit of doxing and a bit of insulting and a bit of attacking. It goes much further than that.

No, well, that I understand, But as far as the criticism of you, you don't think some of it was deserved you know, like, for example, there's a lot of questions concerning your biography or excuse me, your education, and various claims on different sites like where is your education from? Is from Israel and South Africa. I have had certain things that I did in the United States, but it didn't get my degrees in the United States. And what people are doing is they're going on way back and they look at the odd thing that I've put on LinkedIn years ago.

That's not research on someone. Okay, but do you have a Master's of Science from Berkeley? No? Well, one cite lists that you do with cyclists that I do.

Look the thing with the internet with and I don't even know what you're talking about. There was. There was a time that I put on that masters of a I think masters of Psychology or Masters of something from Berkeley on LinkedIn for about a week then removed it. I removed my education, I remove everything.

Okay, but why would you put that there? Did you attend the University of California. I did attend it. I wasn't a student.

I attended it for a certain course. It was to do with psychology. Yes, okay. And you said that you had a degree from the University of South Africa, Right, yeah, and what year did you get that degree?

Nineteen ninety eight. I believe it was okay, because there's various sites. You know, some of them say between nineteen ninety five and nineteen ninety eight. Now they say nineteen ninety four and two thousand.

So there seems to be all this confusion around even something as simple as where you got your degrees and when. And look again, where I got my education from. If this is the thing, what is the point of asking me where I got my education? Well, don't you.

Believe it goes to credibility because you've known you've had two Twitter accounts that were all pumping all this alien information and now you're saying that those were scripted to get close to UFO people. But then we go to the you know, I'm trying to be fair here, but when you go to some of the some of these sites where your education is all over the place, it's. Nice though Firstly, those were old sites. Secondly, I came to the UK from South Africa where certain there were certain things that I was doing.

At the time, I was still involved with Israelian intelligence and there were companies that I was involved in where I was getting. In to do a job. Was an espionage I wasn't taking information out of the country. It wasn't anything malicious on the fairies whatsoever.

That's my background. People can ask my background. I'm not here about my credibility to talk about you. But yeah, I understand.

But you understand that the credibility of a witness is always important to people listening to the to the person. You're making a lot of You're. Making a lot of claims, and so people are gonna are going to question your credibility. People question regardless, do you have.

Any expertise in nanotechnology or friends that have expertise in nanotechnology? Yes? I do, okay, because in this Truthbearer account, you are telling somebody to d M you you work with a team of leading experts. What are the experts in the field of nanotechnology that you work with.

It is one of the water companies that I work with, we're developing or we've developed a nanomembrane for water treatment or revidiation, and they are experts. In fact, they've written books on nanotechnology and nothing. Not just to claim, okay, because that's one of the other criticisms that you are always saying that you work with all of these. I do work people, and I do work with these high place people.

I do work with these high place people. Do you want to name some of them? One of them you can find out. Her name is Gail Pergamit.

She's actually written a book on nanotechnology. Okay, And what about annie gravity? What experts in the field of any gravity? Do you know in terms of anti gravity?

My father was a. Senior engineer in albert and I AI in Israel for a long time. They the equivalent of the Luckied Martins. I've known a lot of engineers in all of the aerospace companies at some point work I have worked on in anti gravity?

Do I know? Do I understand the science? No? I don't work with anti gravity.

Deg I mean you can understand it. Like some of the claims of this truthbearer account, you're telling somebody do you work do you have a working any gravity experiment? And you say, some of the people, excuse me, several people do, including some of the guys I work with every day. Yeah, who is it that you work with every day that has any gravity experiments?

Right at the time I was involved with your friend and I was helping them with research papers. I was involved in the group day to day, and I wasn't actually doing the experiments, but I was working. I was in the WhatsApp groups, interacting with them every day, with Jeremy from Alien Scientist. Okay, and all of them.

That's the experiments they do. You know him, you know the type work that they're doing. They've all been working on experiments on anti gravity. Then it was shitload about it.

Okay, and what about Klaus Schmidt. You claim that you met him at a certain point Klaus Schmidt. Yeah, This is from one of the tweets on the truth Bearer account. Doesn't ring a bell.

It says I met Klaus Schmidt almost fifteen years ago to the day with the team. Such a wonderful man. Amazing to think less than five percent of the site has only been uncovered. We found evidence that could be a few similar buried sites only a few miles away.

I mean, you can see how this sounds fantastical. You're connected in with people that are experts in nanotechnology, You're connected in with people that are experts in anti gravity experiments. Because it's to be connected with them. But I've never come out and stated that I am an industry expert.

I do work with a lot of these people because I work at a lot of fields of technology and industry. That is true. I don't need to apologize for it. I don't need to name names.

Okay, I have to name people. What about the claims of being of spending three decades hunting former Nazis around the world and files. Some of the people that are part of this group were the Nazi hunters. That actually wasn't my story.

But I having come from Israeli intelligence, yes, I was well aware of many people that were Nazi hunters. You asking me, I'm being honest? Sure, sure, But back to Christopher Gray. So Christopher Gray sort of gets, let's just say, too deep down the rabbit hole here, and he believed from his it appears from his public statements shortly before the murder, that he was under some sort of attack by Christopher Bledsoe and Christopher Bledsoe's group of devotees.

Shall we say, and do you think that had something to do with him cracking and murdering his own father. I think that he believed that he was experimented on. He believed that he had something put in his head he believed that he had experiments conducted on him. I'm one aware that they're on numerous human experimentation projects and programs that have taken place, not just in the United States but all over the world.

He had a massive paranoia about it. Could he have potentially have been a victim of one of these programs. Potentially he may have been a test subject. I don't know him well enough at all.

Okay, I mean that's fair. And then can we talk about this group of people that this Christopher Gray sent the murder video and a pretty shocking sort of a final message too. Yeah. Do you have any insight as to why he sent so many UFO celebrities, including Christopher Mellon and Loue Alizondo and others the video of the actual of him actually murdering his father, with that strange message about the bloodstos.

I believe he holds a lot of those people responsible for what was happening to him and the people he believed he. Was close to. I have no idea what that has to do with his father, but he wanted to send a message that what he did his father could happen to any one of them if they get near him. Okay, and are you aware of others in this group of people who actively tried to sort of discourage people from talking about this murder video being sent to all these UFO celebrities.

And I don't know a single person on that list who ever mentioned it, who ever spoke out about it, whoever wanted anything to do with it, who alerted any authorities in any country, because remember those of people from all over the world. Those are not just people in the United States. Okay, Yeah, it was pretty shocking that so many people got sent this video of a literal murder and no one even mentioned it, talked about it. I found.

I searched the time frame on all every recipient's Twitter feeds and social other social media sites, Facebook, whatever, Instagram, even TikTok. I found zero mentioned. And it's it's kind of shocking to me that so many people in the UFO community, especially these well known UFO celebrities, all got a video of somebody being murdered and making claims about Christopher Bledsoe in the message accompanying the murder video, and no one talked about it. Well, in the in fairness, it doesn't mention Christopher Bletzer.

It mentions the blitzos. I think it even mentions his cousin. These are the people who are pushing a narrative and any mention of this would would harnt the narrative and the cause that they were working for. And there were a lot of people on Twitter, such as Jonathan Davies and a lot of the group who were actively trying to discourage and dissuade people from ever mentioning it.

And there were people who were affected and were sent that video and other from Christopher Gray directly, who were then approached by Jonathan Davies and some of the other guys, and they felt intimidated and threatened to be quiet about it. Okay, Yeah, And. It would appear that at least Davies was discouraging people from talking about it because that would put the disclosure advocates that were sent that murder video I suppose in a bad light somehow, or you. Know, absolutely, Look, Jonathan Davis is one of the main people that I was I came on to monitor and to keep tabs on what he was doing and who he was interacting with and why he was doing it.

And he was trying to recruit I know, he's put in a lot of tweets and a lot of messages saying that I was the one recruiting. I was never recruiting anyone. I was never building a cult. I was never there.

I never gained I don't get paid for any of this. I have never asked anything of anyone. I didn't even ever care or interact with any of these UFO celebrities ever. I didn't care to.

I wasn't there to do it. What people, This is what I say, and I'll say to you what I say to anyone else. I get why you're asking me the questions about me. You can ask all you like.

You may not like my answers. You may think you know this is a crocket ship. It goes to your credibility. This isn't about me.

The evidence doesn't need anyone to talk about it. It's there in front of you. The things we've got in front of you, no one else has ever seen. No And I agree with you that many of the screenshots that you have provided, or Jonathan have provided back up much of what you say.

But I'm sure you understand that it sounds like a pretty fantastical story we have, like this whole UFO cult of personality. We have people, you know, recruiting people to be followers of certain cult like figures like the Bloodstows, and some shadowy groups sending in operatives to pull people out of these extreme groups. You are looking at it as a shadowy group sending in operatives, or it is just an organization who is sending people with skills in in being able to engage people using psychology, who have got a background in actually helping people that have been affected by ideologies. Everyone involved has a similar background.

Not everyone is in intelligence. Some people are simply psychologists. Okay, well that sort of makes sense that you're sending a psychologist to help somebody so be deprogrammed from a cult right direct. And people can go out and they can try find out whatever background they wanted.

Me. It's not about me. As I said, I can leave Twitter tomorrow and leave you all to your own devices. When I came on in April, all I came on to do was to be left alone.

And I came on to share information on technology, on science, on history of certain things. Everything I shared keep can go read up about. And yes, people have said, you know what, anyone can go on to Google and find this as well and just research it. Yeah, they could, but in this field people don't because until I started talking about plasma, there were people who claim they had an interest in plasma, but no one actually was talking about plasma as a possible cause for half of things that people are seeing and experiencing.

Since I started interacting with people and talking about certain technologies such as such as, for example, that drones were not actually invented ten twenty years ago. Drones have been around for over one hundred years in World War Two, Yes, but people never talk about it, and people don't even research it, and people just simply follow what they are told in news articles. Recently, I was simply there to show people that a lot of these technologies go way back because no one else was doing it. And people can criticize me or they like as I said, I could leave tomorrow.

Everyone can get on with their own devices. But the information you have in front of you. Is there. That doesn't change.

No one needs to interact with me. People can think I'm a bullshit, and I really don't care. I have a life. I can go carry on with my day job.

I've got a family I can carry on in. I really don't lose sleep over Twitter. That's the thing. Most people get docked or they get their information and they panic, they're going to forms of anxiety and oh my god, they've altered me.

And that's It doesn't bother me. If people honestly believe that I've harmed I've never harmed anybody on Twitter. If people want to say, well, you said this with one account and this with another country, it doesn't end up Therefore you are like. Yeah, I like the people.

It was my job. If people want to call me another Richard Doughty, if fine, call me a Rickdote again, it doesn't bother me. All I want to do here is to expose the truth of what has happened and continues to happen. I've shown examples of how it happens with people like Ross Coulthard and others.

You've also got things in front of you that aren't just from me and Jonathan, because immediately people will say, oh, but you're friends with Jonathan, so of course you guys will back each other's story. This isn't our story. This is in black and white where you can read it. But there you've got other evidence that doesn't come from me and Jonathan, it comes from other people.

Yeah, you know, I would agree that you know, certainly there is substantial and supportive evidence of many parts of the story as you have laid them out. But I suppose that people you know are going to have a problem with a lot of the background, you know, Like I'm sure you can understand it's a lot of baggage, Like if somebody without the baggage that you're and all this confusion with these multiple accounts and why you're reading one thing on one and one thing on another one. Because that was my job and people could just take it or leave it. Again, this is not about me, and I don't understand why people continue to make it about me.

If people want to make it about me, the problem people have and why you never crack, why you can never crack people like the Lui Alessanda's because you make it about Loui Alessandro. You make people make it so much about Loui Alessanda or this celebrity or that celebrity that you never actually get behind who's behind them. It never seems to matter. It's just about taking an individual down.

Great, take me down. You can take me down. It really doesn't bother me. It doesn't change what you have in front of you.

Whether I worked for a shadowy organization as you called it, or I worked for myself. I'm just a guy who caught wind of people manipulating vulnerable people and doing really, really shitty things to them that were very dangerous, that led people to some serious anxieties and serious paranoid to the verge of schizophrenia. That led someone, because it's all involved with the same group, to murder his own father. Doesn't matter if I was part of a group or working on my own.

What will make everyone feel more comfortable? No, I understand your side of it absolutely, So what do you think happened happens next with these groups? That's really up to you, guys. That's really up to you, guys.

I don't intend to stay on Twitter long. I've done my piece. People think what they do with me, It really doesn't bother them. I don't have a purpose for it anymore.

I'm now out. I was someone who was there to share information, and the person who was who was going behind the scenes telling people. No, he was ruther a Terrevy, he was truthbearer. That was John Davies.

I've got all the tweets and evidence of from the second week or the first week that I joined here already came to me. Ah morn hello a long time. Are you here to recruit people? Are you here to tell them stories of seeing aliens and this at the other and he's been going around and you've also got evidence where he was telling people to stay away from me.

Way back when I have seen that, you know. And the other concern that I have is, you know, I'm sure that some people are going to think it's rather convenient that we have one of your biggest critics, Jonathan Davis is sort of the bad guy in this whole story. That's because Jonathan Davies is the bad guy. But isn't that convenient?

That's evidence that that puts him as the bad guy, and he's one of your harshest critics. So is this you know that you're trying to settle between the two of you, oh, between me and him. If you're asking me if it's personal or it is personal, because I've seen what he does to people, it's not personal to the point where I'm here to take him down. This is a guy who's active to try to take me down.

I'm saying to you it didn't succeed because I don't care. But what I'm sharing with you is the truth. You've got evidence in front of you. And again I keep saying it.

Everyone keeps going on about the need for evidence. Evidence, evidence, evidence. Take me out of the equation in whatever you want to share. You don't even have to have me involved.

You have enough in front of you to make your own mind up. If people want to think this is a personal vendetta, I'm trying to point score, and I'm trying to settle the score with Jonathan Davies. He has come out and made a lot of claims about me that are untrue. I'm simply providing evidence to you of a much bigger thing that has been going on that also simultaneously contradicts a lot of the claims he's made about me.

I'm now no longer running away from it. I'm not hiading, I'm not denying it as those accounts you've asked me, certain questions. You've asked me if some of the claims I made were false, and I'm saying to you, yeah, they were. I'm not trying to create stories, trying to give excuses I'm simply saying it as it is.

People want to attack me for it, absolutely fine, I'm not the I shouldn't be the focal point here if people want to make me the focal by all means. But as usual, they missing the point here. People are accusing everyone of being in cults. People don't actually understand what the real.

Cult is behavior. There's certainly cult like behavior going on here. There is cult like behavior. But what you have in front of you is the true definition of what a cult does.

And what people are accusing some people on Twitter of being part of cults just because they believe it is ridiculous. That's not what the cult is. That's just fanatics. And there's a difference.

Yeah. Yeah, Well it's definitely a disturbing story. And and you know, unfortunately somebody died over all of this. Yeah, and I'm more aware of the one.

I'm aware of at least a few more murders that have taken place when people got too deep down that rabbit hole. Somebody killed their own brother. Here we have a story of somebody killing their own father and then sending a murder video to all of these well known prominent UFO celebrities in this other case, somebody murdered their own brother because they thought they were a reptilian alien or something ridiculous like that. So there is a real danger that people get too far down the rabbit hole and lose their grip on reality.

People are getting hurt. But it's the same thing that I was saying a few months ago, where I said, actually said this on the Josh and Atomis show. Another group of people who I'd never hammed, I've never wronged, and turned on me in a dime on that blog, which is absolutely fine. But I said on their show that the biggest gripe I had with the narrative is that the people like Trava and others who are making these claims of declaration of war and these are regressive aliens and they're coming to invade and parasitic swarms of hitchhiking god knows what.

You are creating a paranoia in people who are vulnerable already as it is. And if you have someone who is already highly paranoid and schizophrenic listening to someone in a senior position making claims that an alien invasion is taking place and it's a declaration of war, what do you think that resulting that is a national security threat that in itself is The interesting thing is is that in the last twenty years, no Navy personnel have died from any alleged UAP incursion. None. I actually shared an article about a week ago from someone in naval and intelligence stating no one has ever died or been harmed from any of these UAP But I've given you an example of people that have died and have been harmed, and it happens all the time.

It's still going on. Yeah, yeah, I would tend to agree with you. It seems like that this story has been sort of covered up and forgotten about, and that's disturbing in and of itself, right. It is disturbing, But it's disturbing because it hasn't stopped.

That type of recruitment still takes place. There are new people joining the ranks and they're trying to work their way up, and they are prepared. Actually, in the words of Chris Walford who said as to lou Angele's on a spaces on Twitter, which I'm sure you recall, where he said, they are willing to do whatever it takes for their disclosure. Yeah, it does also seem to be a great deal of people who make excuses for absolutely terrible behavior.

You know, like, well, who cares if this person lied to us this many times? You know, it's the greater good? But is it really good what these people are attempting? Or you know, does the end really justify the means?

And a lot of people sort of excuse away all this terrible behavior of some of these characters involved because they're going to bring disclosure whatever that means. Now, I'm going to bring disclosure. There's a lot of terrible that takes place in this leeged community. One of the things that I've always had an issue with is that everyone on all sides is always wanting to take someone else down.

I'm not trying to criticize you, but that's your show. You take people down. Do they deserve to be taken down? Probably?

Yes. They lie and they manipulate, And I'm sure that's exactly what Brad thought about me when he wrote a blog about me, And that's absolutely fine. All I'm trying to say is this isn't about. Me, no, And we will be providing all the evidence that you and others have provided us.

And you know, I am troubled by this story on multiple levels, So you know, I'm gonna furnish all of the evidence. People can read all these private messages and tweets and you know, follow the bouncing all and draw their own conclusion. But it would appear that many of the things that you have described are backed up by the actual evidence provided by you and others, which will be providing all the viewers as always, so people can make up their own mind, ye,